, The Jakarta Post , Jakarta | Wed, 06/07/2006 2:32 PM
Islamic radicalism seems to have found fertile ground here, as seen in the growing number of hard-line groups taking the law into their own hands in the name of religion. These groups have intimidated activists opposing the pornography bill, attacked the office of Playboy Indonesia, raided cafes selling liquor, ransacked suspected houses of prostitution and forcibly closed down churches. The Jakarta Post's Tiarma Siboro, Pandaya and Dwi Atmanta recently interviewed Hasyim Muzadi, chairman of the 40-million strong Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), a traditionally moderate Muslim group, on the rising radicalism. The following are highlights of the interview.
Question: As a mainstream Muslim organization, what has NU been doing to stop people from committing violence in the name of religion?
Answer: The NU cannot do this alone. Neither can ordinary citizens. The police should act, and I have repeatedly told them we (NU) are ready to help them if they need it. I can send Banser (NU civilian guards) anywhere to assist the police. Of course, their (Banser's) involvement could create problems, too. Therefore the best thing to do would be for the government to take legal action against (these groups committing violence).
They are strong because they have the backing of political leaders in both the Cabinet and the House of Representatives.
Do you ever meet with leaders of radical groups and remind them of the dangers of radicalism?
Yes. I have often appealed to them through the media, at seminars and during personal meetings not to resort to violence in pursuing their agenda.
And what did they reply?
(He mentions the leader of one group and quotes him.) ""If we act your way we would be like you and nobody would listen to us.""
More and more regencies and cities have been adopting sharia ordinances, exploiting loopholes in autonomy laws. What is your comment?
The public is skeptical about sharia. Even upon hearing the word sharia people have negative preconceptions.
Islam should be understood in substance, not in rigid interpretation of the scripture, and therefore it should not be formalized as the common principle in multireligious and multiethnic Indonesia.
For example, the Tangerang mayor's antiprostitution ordinance. What's the point of adopting it? No religion permits prostitution. Besides, the crime is dealt with in the Criminal Code, so why not enforce the existing laws instead of making a new bylaw? If the bylaw is based on Islamic values, it creates problems with citizens of other faiths.
In Aceh (where sharia has been formally in place since 2002), some people I talked to have begun to realize that true sharia is doing your best to improve people's welfare.
What's your stand on the pornography bill?
NU has repeatedly asked all parties involved in the debate to maintain the balance between religious and secular values. I believe Indonesia should have a pornography law to withstand the onslaught of pornography brought to us through globalization. Even developed countries have such laws.
However, the future law should accommodate diversity in terms of religion, culture and ethnicity. In Bali, for example, women traditionally wear more revealing clothes and the future law should tolerate this. And the same with Papuan men who wear koteka (penis sheaths) ... so long as they don't wear them in (Jakarta's) Pasar Baru market because then it would become pornographic.
The spirit of the future law should be to help protect the people from moral decadence. But again, it should respect pluralism.
The present draft has fomented suspicion that it is sharia-inspired, and is conspicuously supported by radical Muslims but rejected by the liberal-minded.
I am concerned by the harassment of (singer) Inul by a group of individuals simply because she opposes the bill. The use of violence only taints the image of Islam.
What do you think about the campaign to revitalize (the state ideology) Pancasila?
People should stop debating and start putting Pancasila into practice, because it has long been accepted as a way of life for Indonesian people.
Indeed, different regimes had different perceptions about Pancasila. (First president) Sukarno used it as a doctrine for his revolutionary movement. To fit his political agenda, he tried to condense the five tenets into one, Ekasila -- which promotes universalist values.
Under (second president) Soeharto, Pancasila was used as a political weapon to back his authoritarian political system and to suppress his opponents, although Pancasila explicitly promotes ""unity in diversity"".
But people now should focus on the essence of Pancasila. There is no need to question it. It's a good thing that our leaders have been revitalizing Pancasila amid efforts to replace it with sharia.
The leaders of NU will hold a national congress at the end of July to reaffirm our commitment to upholding Pancasila as the state ideology and to safeguarding Indonesia's territorial integrity.
How must the Yudhoyono administration deal with rising nationalism?
Indonesia is neither a secular nor a theocratic state. What Indonesia should do is maintain the balance between the two. Religious values should be present in all aspects of life without shifting to theocracy.
In some places, such as in Aceh, where Islam has been formalized as the region's official religion, the principle has been somewhat twisted.
But we thank reformists for bringing democracy to our country, I think it's high time for Indonesia to review the reform movement through improvements in the political system and national leadership.
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